Question of the Day

This is a new section for TTT, where anyone can post the Question of the Day, and others can obviously answer it, as a kind of kickstarter for a self-governing symposium. Obviously other questions can be asked in specific threads on TTT.

RULES

There can only be one Question of the Day each day. Otherwise it would be Questions of the Day 😉

Anyone can start a Question of the Day.

It has to be about Liverpool FC, but can involve non-LFC players or managers, if it still connects back to LFC.

The aim is to generate interesting replies, not to be a replacement for Google (i.e. How many goals did Ian Rush score; go look it up!)

New rules will be announced as and when, as if this is North Korea.

Comments (1,470)

  1. Chris Rowland 4 years ago

    2 home games, 2 different competitions, not much more than a dog’s chance in either of achieving our goals – reach the final/win the league.

    So – where do our priorities now lie?

    • Grover 4 years ago

      The next game, for me.  Just got to deal with one at a time.

      • Chris Rowland 4 years ago

        Yes I agree, I have neither the desire nor the mental capacity to do anything else! 😉

  2. PeterD 4 years ago

    So, Barcelona have had an emergency meeting today and have decided that our front 3 is what they really need.

    They have faxed through a straight swap “offer”

    Messi, Coutinho and Suarez

    FOR

    Mane, Firmini and Salah

    Do we even give the offer the time of day?

    • PeterD 4 years ago

      or even better FirminO (too tired and emotional to type after last night!)

    • Krishaldo 4 years ago

      Messi is 32 this summer. Suarez turned 32 in Jan. Coutinho is a lost soul!

      On the other hand, our Mane, Firmino and Salah are 27, 27 (28 this year) and 26 (27 this year)

      Peak vs Decline!

    • Author

      Not in a million years!

      For the reasons Krish outlines.

      Barca’s 3 have no great pace left, and are no longer able to work hard, due to age.

      Plus, what we have is about our team, from front to back. Not individuals or pairs or trios.

    • PeterD 4 years ago

      Totally agree – and what a time to live, where our front 3 is in a different league to the best team in the world 🙂

    • Smurph 4 years ago

      No.  Not all three.  Maybe I’d take Messi as a backup =) – but I wouldn’t give any of our three for him at 32.

      Salah scores goals, provides the outlet, get in behind and is constantly being mugged the entire time.  Outside of our wingbacks, he sets everything in motion.

      There are plenty of forwards who work as hard as Firmino and Mane when tracking back.  Mid and lower table teams are littered with them.  But I can’t think of many/any that produce in such abundance on the business end. Part of the knock on Phil was he was not as diligent as Klopp liked in that aspect of his play.

      Suarez is a right prick.  I loved him when he played for us, and was sad to see him leave, but I was ashamed of how he played against us, and just wouldn’t take him back now.  He’s beyond his best.

      I think the question is, would we swap our three for their three when they were all in their Prime?  Mane now for the Suarez who left us? Salah now for a 28 year old Messi? Would Messi work as well in Klopps system?

      Phil for Bobby? (No)

    • LeeHamm 4 years ago

      I think we remove the paper from the fax machine…

       

  3. Jeff 4 years ago

    Barcelona is a poorly run football team and if you look at the money they have spent in the past say 5 years, you would sit and say they have gotten little if any return on their investment. Their key forwards are the wrong side of 30 and their midfield is comprised for the most part in players over 30 and their back line’s two best players are over 30. It is a side in trouble. There academy has not been producing players and they only have a player or two or – Arthur and Carles Alena – who show they might be players in the future or at least solid midfielders. Oh yes, the club does have massive debts which surely count in the world of rebuilding.

    Simply put, Liverpool is a club or the rise and Barcelona is a club in real trouble.

  4. wrd_4 4 years ago

    Spurs qualified for the knock out phases with 8 points, qualifying on the basis that they had scored more away goals in their two ties against Inter. They won their round of 16 tie against Dortmund but have drawn their ties in the quarter and semi finals. Are they the least deserving Champions League finalists of all time??

    • It was a different era, but I’ve always been amused by PSV Eindhoven’s path to winning the European Cup in 1988.

      Quarter-final: 1-1 away then 0-0 at home.

      Semi-final: 1-1 away then 0-0 at home.

      Final: 0-0, won on penalties!

      The Ev would’ve walked it that year 😉

      • rvass 4 years ago

        And they’re not at all bitter about it either…

    • Let’s not turn into the type of fans who were accusing us of the same last year.

      They’ve played Barcelona, Inter, PSV, Dortmund, Man City, Ajax (who knocked out Madrid and Juve).

      They were less than 1% to go through at one stage in the groups.

      I think they have done fantastically well, and fully deserve to be there considering their standard of opposition.

      Shame that’s where it will end, though 🙂

      • Andrew Beasley 4 years ago

        They were less than 1% to go through at one stage in the groups.

        I saw an interesting tweet last night:

        Play those two semi-finals simultaneously and at the 50 minute mark there is less than 1% chance of a vs. final.

        And yet here we are.

      • JNG83 4 years ago

        We must not forget that we were an excellent Alisson save away from getting knocked out in the final minutes of the group stage against Napoli.

        There are swings and roundabouts at every step of the way.

        The final is what it is, let’s focus, and win it.

  5. rvass 4 years ago

    Spurs will also be the last team to get through on away goals.  With the away goals rule abolished from next year, the team at home in the second leg will have a huge advantage as extra time is obviously played at home, without the risk of an away goal meaning they need two.

    So what would be more equitable?  Perhaps away goals only “count double” when scored in extra time?  Or perhaps seeding the teams based on group stage performance throughout the tournament rather than just the last 16?

  6. MikeH 4 years ago

    If you get through you’re worthy. They beat City on away goals. We beat AC Milan on pens.

    They are a great example of how to build a club. We can’t moan about them and City at the other extreme and be taken seriously. We’d be as hypocritical as the next set of fans.

    I have some excellent, fair Spurs mates who only ever wish me and us well. All clubs have total knobheads in their ranks and its their twattish opinions that get regurgitated in the media.

    This final is a victory for football and sport regardless of the outcome. Of course I want to smash them but losing to those entitled cheating scumbags last year was worse.

    On another note…Barca mate told me our game was bought:)))), you couldn’t make it up!

    • Jeff 4 years ago

      MikeH you are absolutely right, it does not matter how Tottenham got to the final but what matters is that Liverpool beats them in the final.

  7. Chris Rowland 4 years ago

    I have to say I’m disappointed we’re playing Spurs. It will make life in Madrid for those travelling far less relaxing. It could get very edgy. Spurs fans will be treating this like a once-in-a-lifetime experience, not a once-a-season one like us! 😉 They’ll be over-excited, in pilgrimage mode, and I think there could be plenty of confrontation, not just in Madrid but at airports, ferry terminals and motorway service stations across France and Spain. The idea of a relaxing pint in the sunshine has just gone west – or south.

    And there’ll be plenty of both without tickets. Spurs fans do that thing where they throw beer up in the air over everybody if they score. If that happens in a mixed bar, it’ll kick off.

    Purely from the fan experience, rather than the football match, I’d have preferred Ajax. In fact I would have anyway. I don’t think there’s much between us and Spurs in quality. I just hope our steely focus from losing last year will give us an edge over their just-happy-to-be-there dreamboatery.

    I also have a slight niggle about how often one team beats another on broadly the same level 3 times out of 3 in one season – now there’s a challenge for the statisticians! I’d have had no such reservations about Ajax – whilst certainly not under rating them.

    • Grover 4 years ago

      Agree, Chris and the Spanish police can be heavy-handed with English football fans.  With both sets of fans being English, it could be tense.  I was only half thinking of going to Madrid, but being drawn against Spurs has made me decide not to go.  I don’t think I would get a ticket anyway and it won’t be as much fun just watching it in bars there now.

      • Chris Rowland 4 years ago

        That’s right Grover. I was talking this morning to one of our lot who went to Barca. He said the police and stewards – and the stewards had batons – were confiscating legitimate tickets saying they were fakes and reselling them. Also my mate wasn’t allowed to go to the toilet during the half hour when they were held in after the match. A steward blocked his way and said no. My mate told the steward he’d be old one day! The steward said something in Catalan and all the other stewards laughed at my mate, and the original one said he looked forward to seeing him piss himself.

        Can’t wait.

      • NickM 4 years ago

        I was just looking at were the Wanda is located because a colleague of mine in Spain told me it was near where she worked and I had thought it was to the north rather than the east of Madrid. I noticed that there is only 1 metro station there so I have no idea what the plan is for getting the two sets of fans to the ground if they are looking to keep them segregated. I assume they will lay on buses from two centrally located fan zones but who knows.

  8. red mick 4 years ago

    I will be in Madrid for a week around the final and hope to God people behave, drink some superlative Spanish wine, eat some superlative tapas, go and see Picasso’s Guernica (a piece of work to make you weep) and treat the Madrilenos with friendliness and respect. It should be a great week, hopefully  topped off with Number Six.

  9. arjun_aiyar 4 years ago

    I was thinking about us and Man City after we beat Barca…which team has had the better of the past 2 Seasons (assuming the most probable outcome in the last two games)

    Lfc: 2018: 4th place finish, CL final

    Lfc 2019: 2nd 97 points and CL win

    Man City 2018:PL Champions (100 points), League Cup winners

    Man City: 2019, PL Champions (98 points), League Cup and FA Cup.

    City have obviously won more but the back to back CL finals and 90 plus season we’re having makes this interesting to my mind- plus obviously the massive gap in squad value plays into into it as well. I’d say if we won the CL, we’d edge it, but it’s close…

    • I suppose you can look at it in two ways.

      Ours would be the better achievement in view of the financial disparity between the sides.

      But if they win five trophies including two league titles where they’ve got the top two points tallies ever, that has to top one CL really.

      Not that I’d be unhappy with one CL of course 😉

    • madchenKliop 4 years ago

      I’d say it’s a battle between quantity and quality, (IF we win the final that is! And in a quality fashion!)

      City have a huge quantity of expensive dog’s bollocks attacking midfielders and have therefore won a large quantity of matches against inferior opposition who also ran out of energy.  But when it came to must win games against quality opposition they have a mixed record and ultimately have failed.  That’s got to stick in their craw.

      We on the other hand can look anyone in the eye without fear.  IF WE WIN, I’d say we have stolen their thunder.  Their victories will be thoroughly tainted.

  10. Jeff 4 years ago

    To me the earlier one accomplishes a needed task the better off one will be. I know that Jurgen Klopp’s contract has some years on it but if I was FSG and Liverpool I would approach him about extending his contract and give him a goodly if not massive pay raise. I know he makes a handsome income but given what he has accomplished in Liverpool, one can easily make the case that he is underpaid and deserves a sizable pay raise and a brand new contract. This is what I think and I am curious what others think.

    • OT 4 years ago

      FWIW

      I’ve seen Italian reports this week that its already been done and parties just waiting for the season to finish before announcement.   Focus of the reports were on Juve.  Said their first choice far and away was Klopp but when they approached were told he was more than happy where he was and had already re-upped with LFC for a new record deal.

      Is there any truth to the “reports”?  Who knows.  Would such such make sense to do from LFC’s perspective – absolutely.

      Edit: google “Klopp Juve” – apparently the story (or some story) got a lot of play yesterday

      • Chris Rowland 4 years ago

        After Tuesday, and with Madrid to come, Klopp ain’t goin’ nowhere else. He’s getting closer to Liverpool the club and Liverpool the city by the day.

      • Jeff 4 years ago

        OT I have seen reports that he has either agreed to a new contract or a contract extension but I want to see the club and Klopp announce it.

  11. yathaid 4 years ago

    I started following football circa 2001, and have always made somewhat of hipster choices in my fan following. Entranced by Owen and Gerrard, I started following Liverpool.

    My brother, younger to me by about six years, went one step further; he picked Spurs during the Van der Waart era and has stuck to that forlorn ship. And hence, I always had a certain soft spot for Spurs.

    As you can imagine it has been peak trash talk in our family group this week.

    P.S. Funny story about my brother. The CL game for Spurs against City ended around 2AM local time. He was so annoyed when Sterling scored that he shut the TV and went to bed; only to realize the next morning that Spurs had gone through. Talk about a VAR twist!

  12. ArdentLFCFan 4 years ago

    If we win the Champions League, do you think Van Dijk can be a contender for the Ballon d’or?

  13. markcohen 4 years ago

    Not only do I think he can be a contender, I’m fairly certain he will be the winner… no other plausible option for UEFA.

  14. PeterD 4 years ago

    A work in progress (not that much more work is required!) as we are so close to the finished article.

    Great in all departments, can score at will, hard to score against and a self belief that is off the scale.

    What can we (Jurgen and team) do to make a step up for next year?

    More creativity in midfield is maybe the thing – but would that take away the energy and screening that makes it possible for our fullbacks to be so creative?

    When you look around at the rivals, apart from Man City they truly need some work and even City have a number of players that are getting to that melt or move on point – which we don’t really have.

    All in all, on a disappointing day we have a rosy future to look forward to 🙂

    Now to relax for 3 weeks!

  15. Krishaldo 4 years ago

    Just seen this quote from Pepe Reina:
    Reina still has his home on Merseyside and intensely follows the progress the club have made ever since his permanent departure in 2014.
    Now at AC Milan, when not pushing first-choice stopper Gianluigi Donnarumma, one of the Spaniard’s favourite pastimes is watching this set of Liverpool players.

    “Whenever I can basically,” he says. “I’m probably the No.1 fan.
    “It’s home. I was there eight years – nine with the season I was on loan with Napoli. I consider Liverpool my home and it will always be like that. It’s what they say; once a Red, always a Red”
    Question:

    He’s made 2(1) Serie A apps this season plus 6 in the EL and turns 37 in August.

    Would you have him back at the club to be a 2nd/3rd choice and help out the younger GKs?

    Manninger was reportedly a help for Migs a while back. Maybe Pepe could be a help too.

    Still love the guy. I’d have him (for the right deal of course).

    • Author

      37 is now way too old for a keeper. But would I have him back for a season as reserve? Probably. Depends on the two young keepers we have coming through.

    • Markus 4 years ago

      I would take him. He was also said to be really good in the dressing room.

    • Ross 4 years ago

      We need a back up as Migs is likely to leave.

      Our young keepers Kellaher and Grabara are probably too young to step into the premier / CL.

      A 1 year deal as cover and to help the young keepers make the next step sounds ideal to me.

    • Jeff 4 years ago

      Every young player at every position needs matches in the first team to show that they have what it takes to play at the highest levels or show they do not belong at the highest level of  football. I have every confidence in Jurgen Klopp to determine whether or not it is time for the young keepers to actually get first team matches in say the League Cup or the FA Cup and to be able to say to himself that he could live with them in Premier League matches. My point is one way or another Klopp has to make up him mind on the young lads and they need matches I suspect for him to make up their mind. Always remember that in the world of Jurgen Klopp what they show in training sessions will play a major perhaps the determining factor in any decision he makes.

    • Krishaldo 4 years ago

      I advocated signing Pepe as a number two a few seasons back as whenever Migs was challenged, he seemed to improve. Even if it was just Brad Jones for a game.

      But looking back, with Migs propensity to drop a bollock, the calls for Pepe to come in would probably be too strong because of his history with us and would prob end up ruining Migs instead of spurring him on.

      But with this time around, Alisson is 100% number 1. No question about that.

      The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

      I’ll text Klopp now

  16. Krishaldo 4 years ago

    So.. the champions league final, Liverpool vs Spurs! It goes to pens, who are your 5 penalty takers? #LFCTOT
    https://twitter.com/danhendo27/status/1130090918453886976?s=21

    I’m going Milner, Mo, Mané, Wij and VVD (would like Hendo in there)

    • All good shouts, but I think I’d have Trent in there somewhere. And it depends who is on the pitch of course (Sturridge, Origi, Shaqiri…)

    • NickM 4 years ago

      I’d be no good as Liverpool boss because this is a scenario I quite simply do not wish to contemplate.

    • REDM 4 years ago

      No Salah?

  17. MichaelT 4 years ago

    This could also be appropriate to the Champions League page, but as it is (probably) a little light hearted, unless you happen to be directly affected, I thought here would be OK.

    Paddy Power has tweeted a question on Mumsnet concerning the Champions League Final & an upcoming wedding in Liverpool on June 1st – there appears to be a TV ban in place!

    https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/1130766476162375680

    Who’s being unreasonable: the bride or the guests 🙂

    I’m surprised there is even a debate – just have the dinner, watch the game and then celebrate with beer & music!!!

     

    • My general rule is that life comes first… if we arrange something on a weekend and it happens to be at the same time as a Liverpool game, I miss the game. This would undoubtedly be even more true for a wedding. I was a best man on FA Cup final day in 2015, so I was one of few Liverpool fans who weren’t as bothered when we lost the semi-final to Villa 😉

      BUT no other game (barring an end of season title decider) comes close to the importance of the Champions League final! Such a tough call.

    • vinnylfc 4 years ago

      My auntie (Dad’s sister) got married on FA Cup Final day in 1989 (back when it was a big thing!)

      Bearing in mind that the whole family are huge Liverpool fans (apart from one awkward cousin – now sadly passed away – who decided on that day to become a blue!), this was not a popular timing schedule.

      After the ceremony, which fortunately started at 2pm, we moved onto the reception at a local sports club.

      The large hall with buffet tables, disco & dance floor was virtually empty, with everybody crowded into the back bar which had a big screen showing the game!

      120 minutes later, we all happily (apart from one) rejoined the party!

  18. Chris Rowland 4 years ago

    My sister, who is a Red, has tickets to see Muse at the O2 in London – home of our opponents, no less! – on CL final day. She loves both, but bought the Muse tickets months before it was known we’d be in the final. So in that case it goes on chronology! Also, the tickets cost over £70 each, watching the box for the final considerably less! Once you’re pre-invested, it’s game over – literally!

    • Espandole 4 years ago

      Last year my missus was offered the chance to go and see Ed Sheeran live….for nowt….on the same day Liverpool played Real Cheating Madrid.

      She loves Ed Sheeran.

      …but she loves Liverpool more, so that was that.

  19. ArdentLFCFan 4 years ago

    If Liverpool win the Champions League, do you think Van Dijk should win the Ballon d’or? Messi has had an amazing season but missed out the Champions League.

    If Van Dijk heads in the winner in Madrid, then there’s absolutely no doubt that he has the best shot at winning the ballon d’or. A reminder that he has been dribbled past 0 times this season & Van Dijk has turned our worst defence into one of the best in the world.

    What are your thoughts?

     

  20. Masterjee 4 years ago

    Has an ex Liverpool player scored a better goal than this?!

    https://youtu.be/ObZVcMYxWXQ

    • Pushka 4 years ago

      Absolute belter!

    • Roller. 4 years ago

      Wouldn’t have won in Istanbul without him 🙂

    • Jeff 4 years ago

      You have to be happy for the lad that he is still making a living as a footballer.

      • Krishaldo 4 years ago

        Pretty sure that goal was a few years ago and he’s since retired

    • NickM 4 years ago

      A slight improvement on this classic one.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e8DDdQ8PJms

      • Krishaldo 4 years ago

        Doesn’t show it in that clip, but after scoring that goal, he tried to kick the ball at an opposition player that was laughing at him but missed

      • PeterD 4 years ago

        I am sure he knew exactly what he was doing 🙂

        Without that goal, we would have focussed on the FA Cup and Instanbul would never have happened.

        A goal like that would have to be done on purpose – wouldn’t it?

  21. PeterD 4 years ago

    Having seen how much they reckon our players are currently worth…

    https://talksport.com/football/547134/jurgen-klopp-signings-liverpool-value-worth-fee-transfers/

    I know there is the excellent £XI work done by Paul and others to give a true value for what the team has cost (with City being about 50% more than us) but I just wondered if the analysis has been done to determine what the current “market” value of each squad is?

    Presumably a number of City players, as they are older, have a much lower value than their £XI cost – but with our young and talented squad probably not so much! 🙂

  22. thundyr 4 years ago

    Does VvD now win the Ballon D’Or?

  23. Javelin 4 years ago

    Little late for a question of the day, but hey…

    After beating Barcelona in the Semi I think the vast majority of us were hoping for Ajax in the final.  Either because we felt they would be the easier opponent.  Or because, should the worst happen, losing to them wouldn’t be *as* bad as losing to Spurs.

    My question is this: now that we’ve seen what the actual conditions were in the final and how rusty our play was, do you still feel the same?  Or, given the conditions of the final, that Spurs really were the easier team to beat?

  24. Ben 4 years ago

    I’d still have loved Ajax – you should play teams that you don’t play every season in the CL. But agree, Spurs probably a better bet. But who cares? We’d have beaten anyone. It was written this season after the disgrace of Ramos last year. YNWA

  25. Markus 4 years ago

    Would definitely still have preferred Ajax. My pre-match anxiety would have been much lower, I so, so dreaded losing to Spurs.

    We beat Spurs, and we would also have beaten Ajax. 🙂

  26. Krishaldo 4 years ago

    Question inspired by a comment I saw on twitter:

    Of all the players to have played for us since 2000, who would be in your XI?

    Mine would be:

    Alisson

    TAA

    VVD

    Carra

    Robbo

    Gerrard

    Masch

    Xabi

    Salah

    Suarez

    Mané

    That’s SIX of our current team, with arguments that it could be more!

    • PeterD 4 years ago

      I would go with that and not even space for Torres! (or Sterling :-))

    • Hard to argue with that. I might take Reina from his first year or two ahead of Alisson, but not if assessed on his Liverpool career as a whole.

    • Chardo34 4 years ago

      With a bench of:

      Reina

      Torres

      Henderson

      Sterling

      Milner

      Fabinho

      Hyypia

       

      • Leftfootvolley 4 years ago

        Gotta drop a cm and find room for Bobby on that bench surely! 🙂

        Carra or Sami. Tough call. Both legends but would maybe find it hard to get into today’s back four? I’d have Joe G now. But I can’t say that he’s better than Sami or Carra. Agh. I hate these debates!

    • i.wilson 4 years ago

      The only change that I would perhaps proffer would be Sami for Carra – Love Carra but the idea of Sami and VVD as a partnership would be incredible especially for their goal threat from our developing set piece threat.

  27. Author

    It’s an interesting debate above, not least in terms of who was better, Carragher or Hyypia?

    • Krishaldo 4 years ago

      I guess it would depend on the type of line the defence would hold. Carra was never pacy, but I think my mum was probably faster than Sami

  28. Chardo34 4 years ago

    I expect it won’t be long before Gomez starts and the debate is whether Sami or Jamie makes the bench!

  29. Sujeet 4 years ago

     

    The other obvious follow up question would be

    Who would you pick as your manager?

    Klopp or Rafa (given FSG as owners)

    I vote Kloppo of course!

  30. gerry3965 4 years ago

    How about if Jürgen wants a year out of football ?

    Rafa babysits , does the treble and Klopp comes back and finishes off with every fucking trophy available!!!

    That might work ….

  31. Jeff 4 years ago

    When Jurgen Klopp left Dortmund, he announced to the world that he was taking a year off. Did he. No, he took the Liverpool job before the year was up. When he left Dortmund and said that he was taking a year off, it was widely reported in Germany that Guadiola who had one more year left on his contract would leave when the contract was up and Jurgen Klopp would be the new man in Munich. Did this happen? NO So much for writing about Jurgen Klopp and what he will do.

  32. El Indio 4 years ago

    I was wondering when was the last time Liverpool had more than 2 players with double figures in terms of goals in all competitions?

    Was 2013-14 the only one? Was last season the most successful one in terms of plundering goals in all competitions?

    • There were five in 2000/01. Graeme or Terry presumably know what the record is.

    • NickM 4 years ago

      Salah, Mane and Firmino all got into double figures last season for both the CL and the PL.

    • Graeme Riley 4 years ago

      It’s quite frequent actually.

      In the 47 seasons since 1972-73 (inclusive), 40 have had 3 or more players score 10+ goals. Top is 1972-73 and 1985-86, both of which had 6 players in double figures. Keegan 22, Toshack 17, Cormack 13, Hughes 12, Heighway 10, Cormack 10 in 1972-73 and in the Double year Rush 33, Molby 21, Walsh 18, Whelan 14, McMahon 10, Johnston 10.

      Obviously the more games in a season, the more chance there is of achieving it.

  33. lodestar 4 years ago

    Not sure if this has been asked and answered previously.

    After watching the videos of Torres goals for LFC, I started thinking about how lucky we are to have experienced Torres followed by Suarez. And then of course Mo arrived.

    My question is whether there is a statistical way to determine out of the three who is the most clinical.

    Who is the best in the air? Who scored the most goals from range? Who assisted others the most?

    And the final question. You have to choose one of the three to score in the last minute of a CL final when through on goal. Who do you choose?

    I suppose there could be article in this somewhere!

     

     

    • i.wilson 4 years ago

      Surely hard to say.

      You must assess every striker with those who fed his goals.

      Torres had Gerrard in his prime, Alonso, Yossi for creativity and crouchie for knock downs.

      Suarez had an aging Gerrard, Young Coutinho, Young Sterling and Sturridge alongside.

      Salah has Mane, Firm, Taa as his primary threats. He was managed by Klopp.

      Salah has been here while we are in the CL and pushing for top4, Prem in a difficult era.

      Suarez has been here in an era where teams were less defensive against us but we had Brendan as manager.

      Torres had Benitez as a manager – But the bad backdrop of awful owners.

      All of these factors make it difficult to compare if not impossible.

    • thundyr 4 years ago

      This seems easy to me.

      In terms of memories:

      Torres will always have setting the record for fewest games to 50 goals for Liverpool (72), games vs Vidic and a CL silver medal.

      Suarez will always have equalling the EPL record for goals scored in a 38-game season (31), games vs Norwich, EPL Player of the Season and an EPL Golden Boot.

      Salah will always have setting the record for fewest games to 50 goals for Liverpool (69), setting a new EPL record for goals scored in a 38-game season (32), games where he actually won penalties for Liverpool, 2 EPL Golden Boots, EPL Player of the Season, a CL silver medal and a CL winners medal.

      Salah by a mile.  In terms of individual and team performance he’s done better than both combined, despite being a wide player.

  34. REDM 4 years ago

    Guardiola talking about the power of Anfield, and the 4-0 versus Barca specifically. A good listen – not sure if it has been posted before.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/robbohuyton/status/1145650896774283265

    Got me thinking – is Anfield that much noiser than other grounds on big European nights? Would be interested for perspectives from those who have been to big away legs. From TV, Roma in the previous season, and Red Star this season seemed pretty raucous . Or is there something about the tradition of unlikely comebacks that transcends just the atmosphere?

    • damienp 4 years ago

      That’s a great clip.

      How Pep would love to manage us!

      It’s not just the noise REDM; it’s the whole magical package that Pep is referring to. Arteta said the same thing recently about how as an opposition player you feel small and powerless against a seemingly unstoppable force of fans and players and Anfield and history. Of Liverpoolness.

    • Stevenson1988 4 years ago

      When Pep Guardiola says: “It’s a bugger of a ground…” That has to be the greatest compliment of all.

    • yathaid 4 years ago

      Arteta’s recent comments on a similar vein are pertinent too; they are really feeling us in Anfield. Quite the compliment.

      https://talksport.com/football/557497/ex-arsenal-mikel-arteta-dreaded-liverpool/

      • Russell 4 years ago

        He says that playing at Anfield, he felt lost and ‘I never had that feeling anywhere else, not even at Old Toilet!’  Yisssss!

    • Allen Baynes 4 years ago

      I think the most significant difference between Anfield and other European venues is that we are not controlled by either the club – plastic flags, or by a conductor – most fans singing in Europe is conducted by some lad with a megaphone, usually stripped to the waist a la Putin.

      We have a routine with YNWA and a range of regular flags but that is as far as it goes, the rest is spontaneous. I think that has always been our style going back to 1963 when I became a regular at the shrine.

      I think the BOSS nights embraced by the club, but not organised by them has added a new dimension and has added significantly to the consistently improved atmosphere.

      The only really intimidating place that I have been to was Juve in 2005 and that was because we were pelted with stuff throughout the game. Roma’s crowd last year was good but again was conducted.

       

      • madchenKliop 4 years ago

        I agree the spontaneity is key and that’s a great point about no conductor.  Klopp may incite the crowd at times but he’s acutely sensitized to the dynamic between players, the way they play and the crowd. He’s always talking about it and philosophising about the elusive nature of fan emotion.  He’s like a lightening rod and a true believer in the magical powers of crowd generated atmosphere. It’s probably one of Klopp’s greatest attributes and there’s no doubt in my mind that Pep is acutely jealous of JK’s charisma in this department.

        Given all this, it’s no surprise that Klopp was attracted to Liverpool because he also understands the importance of spontaneity in culture and the Kop’s fantastic pedigree in creating their own setlists.  And not just Klopp.  You get the sense that even the suits like Peter Moore and Mike Gordon are tuned in to the organic growth of fan culture.  That has for sure been responsible for the incredible proliferation of songs.  You need a repertoire that extends beyond 3 or 4 anthemic numbers for a crowd to move beyond singing as a duty and start doing it for pleasure.

        One of my absolute highlights of the season has the been the unexpected emergence of the Bobby Firmino song as the end of season fan chart topper.  A lesser club would have hammered the hell out Allez, allez, allez and YNWA, grinding them into meaningless rituals, but there’s been a genuine playful joy and spirit about the way Bobby’s song has risen to the top – just because it sounds great! Even when he’s not been playing!!  If there was ever an example of focusing on yourselves rather than the opposition, this was it!

  35. Krishaldo 4 years ago

    Rondon has a £16.5m release clause. Would you have him as a back up?

    Will be thirty in September and will surely be ‘happy’ to be on the bench for a club like us?

    • Author

      It’s an interesting one, as we probably have the two best crossers in the PL at full-back but no target-man. VvD goes up front late on if required.

      He could be an excellent sub, but as you say, would he want to do that? And would it ruin the way we play if we started resorting to hitting too many long balls? In theory, a lovely Plan B, but neither ourselves nor Man City had a radically different Plan B last season and we both did incredibly well. Spurs did, with Llorente, who won them some games.

      • madchenKliop 4 years ago

        I can’t agree about us having no target men, because Mané, Firmino, Wij and even Origi have scored some significant headed goals on a regular basis – all brought about by painstakingly orchestrated movement.  The delivery of the full backs is geared towards finding players in space rather than outmuscling defenders.  Mobility and intelligent movement are the traits we need – things that have improved massively in Origi’s game last season.   Rondon’s movement is pretty good, but I’m not sure he would have the engine to match the rapid interchanging runs that characterise our late goals.

      • Author
        Paul Tomkins 4 years ago

        We’ve scored a ton of headed goals, without doubt. I think Mané doubled his career headed goals tally this season alone. But that doesn’t make them target-men in the traditional sense. They can only score if the cross is good enough, and can’t flick on a ton of chances like someone like Peter Crouch used to. They win very few aerial duels so the ball needs to be right.

        Someone like Rondon would win far more headers, put CBs under more pressure, and get headed assists. But that doesn’t mean it’s what we should be moving towards. There’s also the fact that if Mané can get so many headed goals, how many would Rondon get on a per-90 basis? Again, would that be counterproductive as it would stop us playing our normal game, and would we be better off just sending VvD up instead?

         

      • REDM 4 years ago

        Reminds me of when Lambert was bought as a plan B. He’d been pretty good the season before but looked rusty and unsuited to our style of play when called upon. Benteke and Carroll also struggled – I think its difficult to be a target man for a top side when you are expected to link up play also. For Newcastle, Rondon took the description of lone striker to the extreme – he was often the only Newcastle player in the opposition half!

      • madchenKliop 4 years ago

        Yes of course I agree with you – not in the traditional sense – but I guess that’s the point I’m trying to make; that Klopp is transparently not interested in going down that traditional route.  In fact, I can’t think of many instances from last season where that kind of plan B would have been handy towards the end of matches.  We rarely seemed to leave it that late.  I suppose Origi v Everton was one in a weird way!  On the whole, I think we tend to tire teams out, so energy and nuisance value are the kind of qualities that can exploit the weak spots at the end of games.  I could see Rondon being unpleasantly awkward, but he doesn’t have Origi’s disorientating hair!

      • NickM 4 years ago

        I have to say I have liked Rondon since I saw him play against us for the Baggies a two or three seasons ago. He is a hard worker and is quick. He holds the ball up well, bringing others into play nicely and can be used as a lone front man which does give the option of the team dropping deeper and having runners joining him/running past him.

        The way we play though tends to be on the front foot so many the question is whether he has the guile to play quick interchanging passes with good movement or would he slow the play down.

        I don’t see him replacing Mane or Salah on either wing, but as a stand in for Bobby mainly. He is pretty direct when he heads towards goal but not that tricky a player, simply using his pace and power to bully his way past players.

        Personally, while I like him and I think he could do a decent job, I would rather give Origi more game time and also bring through Brewster. Buying Rondon probably pushes Brewster down the pecking order, and Klopp appears to have seen enough to be willing to give him some minutes.

        If Klopp is happy with the squad, I am happy with the squad.

         

      • REDM 4 years ago

        I think – as we have seen in bucket loads last season – that Origi is an excellent late game changer sub. He is quick, good in the air and has a real knack of being in the right place to score – and would be a superior option to Rondon in most circumstances.

        Where he appears less effective is playing from the start – we are definitely less fluent when he is in the front 3.

      • airickk 4 years ago

        Will we figure out another way of playing and get marginal gains from all the new rule changes and VAR? Short passes from goalkicks might be more risky now, so playing it long to a target man might have some benefits?

  36. red mick 4 years ago

    I don’t think LFC have been too successful in the modern era with target men. The only one who was an undoubted success was Toshack, although Heskey and Crouch has their moments, I suppose. Other names remembered less fondly include Hateley, Benteke, Morientes, Carroll and Dundee. LFC always seemed to do better with attackers who relied on speed of reaction  and thought and clinical finishing.

    • Jeff 4 years ago

      Mick I am confident that you saw David Johnson play for Liverpool and I think you would agree with me that for a number of years he formed a partnership with King Kenny that was to put it mildly outstanding. He was outstanding in every aspect of being a center forward. As regards this thread, he was an outstanding target men who actually knew h ow to hold up the ball and actually use it and it was an outstanding header of the ball on both ends of the pitch. He is in my opinion one of the most under rated quality players of the Paisley era and one can only speculate on what his career at Liverpool would have been if Shankly had been able to bring him to Liverpool from Everton early on in his career.

      Off all the players who played for Liverpool in the 1970s David Johnson and Peter Cormack are in my opinion the players who should be thought of as outstanding Liverpool players and tend to get lost in the shuffle and are criminally under rated.

      • The Red One 4 years ago

        Jeff, I have some great memories of David Johnson.  He took my friend and I on a personal tour of Anfield when, if memory serves me correctly, the trophies were in a cabinet in the boardroom.  We had photos taken with the European Cup (can’t remember which one!) and got to sit in the old dugout.  He also used to get me tickets for finals, a real genuine guy and, as you say, a great player for us.

      • red mick 4 years ago

        Yes Jeff, Doc Johnson slipped my memory, as things tend to do these days. I know you think Cormack was great and I certainly think  he was a good player, but, for me, not a great one.

      • Jeff 4 years ago

        Mick I do not believe that Peter Cormack was a great player but from the time of his arrival until his knees gave out, he was the player that made Liverpool’s midfield function and he played a key role in the building of Shankly’s second great Liverpool team. My point about him is and was that he is one of those players who seemingly is lost on most modern Liverpool players and to me he deserves to be remembered for the fine Liverpool player he was.

    • Stevenson1988 4 years ago

      Jeff, there was a saying at the time that when Cormack played well, Liverpool played well. Fortunately he played very well most of the time! He remains a massively underrated player in the pantheon of very good Liverpool players.

      • Jeff 4 years ago

        One of the realities that drives me nuts is how some really good maybe not great but really good players from the 60s and 70s have been forgotten about by supporters or fans of a particular team. This is the point I tried to make about both David Johnson and Peter Cormack.

        Thank you for supporting my contention that Peter Cormack was a key player in the building of Shankly’s second great Liverpool team.

  37. Krishaldo 4 years ago

    Andy Carroll is on a free if we are looking for something to change the game late on 😉

    • vinnylfc 4 years ago

      We should offer whatever we can get for Salah minus £15m! 😉

    • Denis 4 years ago

      Andy Carroll is on a free if we are looking for something

      More likely Andy Carroll is on the piss, and off his face!  No thanks, we’ve already done that, we’re not having it again!

  38. Stevenson1988 4 years ago

    This morning’s press is reporting Klopp as having said there is no rush to renew and extend his contract. He confirmed that he would never walk away from the contract and that 3 years was plenty of time within which to extend, so there was no need to panic. The question is: if towards the end of 3 years Klopp said that he wanted to take a sabbatical for a year, should the club allow that? We lost both Shankly and Dalglish because they resigned when burnt out and subsequently regretted their decisions, both wanting to return barely a few months later. Should we learn our lesson from history, keep him on a contract, but let him take the time out?

    • humdul1 4 years ago

      Yes if we manage to win a league title or 2 in that period. If not, then it is not as clear cut in my opinion.

    • NickM 4 years ago

      I don’t think we should worry about it. Let’s just try and enjoy the next three years with him. FSG will know what his thoughts are and will plan accordingly when that time comes. That doesn’t mean that if Klopp leaves they will get the next managerial appointment right but they will try their hardest to find the right person for the job and someone who won’t just rip it all up and start again.

      • Chris Rowland 4 years ago

        I suspect Klopp’s love affair with Liverpool is growing, if anything. I don’t think he’ll want to be  anywhere else, unless it’s his garden!

    • I think he’ll leave after those three years, because it’ll be seven years since he started and that was the same time he spent at Mainz and Dortmund. Probably taking over the German national team for another seven years, winning a World Cup and Euros in all likelihood.

  39. simon.barrington 4 years ago

    I’m pretty relaxed about that at the moment: both JK and FSG have proven themselves to be first class long term planners and builders so I’m confident that suitable discussions and thoughts are already in motion behind the scenes.

    However, ask me in two years, when JK’s seven year stint will be looming over the horizon and we’ve got a bunch more trophies in the cabinet, and if he hasn’t signed a new contract then I might be a bit less relaxed!

  40. Grover 4 years ago

    I don’t think you can assume it will be seven years at Liverpool for Klopp and he will then leave.  He left Mainz as he was offered the Dortmund job and failed to get them promoted after being relegated and he left Dortmund because things went a bit awry after he had to keep selling his best players after developing them, mainly to Bayern and he got a bit burned out there.

    I don’t think Liverpool will necessarily be the same situation.  Who knows what the future holds but I don’t think we can assume that Klopp has this plan to only stay at a club for 7 years. I like the fact that he is no rush to sign to a new deal.  He will see how things go I think.  He will definitely want to win the league before he leaves I would imagine.

    • I’m not assuming, but it is an interesting pattern. Maybe because of the levels of intensity he asks his teams to work at there is a cyclical nature to how long he can spend with any one club? It’ll also make it 21 years in management with only a few months off in that whole time. It must take its toll.

      Why did he fail to get promoted? Why did it go a bit awry at Dortmund (I don’t think it did, nor does Ian Graham!) but he has admitted himself he needed a break, that he was spent and needed refreshing. I can’t imagine it is any easier, emotionally, to manage Liverpool than those two clubs, in fact I’d say it’s a bigger drain. Whereas a spell as the national coach would give him far more free time …

      I hope not, and he’s here for 17 years, but the signs are there that he might not stay that long. From the past, and looking into the future.

  41. Jeff 4 years ago

    No one and when I mean no one I am also talking about Jurgen Klopp himself. When he left Dortmund to take a year off and make a pile of money as a pundit in Germany, everyone assumed that he was taking the year off to rest up because he knew as everyone in Germany knew that Ancelotti was leaving Bayern and Klopp would be the new manager of Bayern. Well, he did not take the year off but in the middle of the year he took the Liverpool job. Simply put, no one saw him doing this and I do not believe that Klopp foresaw this when he left Dortmund.

    Simply put, I have no idea what Klopp will do when his current contract expires and I am confident that Klopp really does not know what he will do when as I expect Liverpool approach him about continuing as Liverpool’s manager.

  42. MikeH 4 years ago

    Klopp is his own man. I don’t believe he has 7 year plans. He’d simply gone as far as he could.

    Buying up all these 16 and 17 year olds makes me think he may well stay. In 3 years time Hoever will be 20, Elliott 19, VdB 20, TAA 23…a point at which it might be hard to walk away if they’re developing as we hope. I’d imagine he’d want to see all that development come to fruition.

    Obviously its all supposition. We should enjoy this immensely gifted manager and top man for as long as he’s with us.

  43. Stevenson1988 4 years ago

    Whilst I accept all the points everyone is making, I think you’re maybe missing the point of my question. We let Shankly retire and he regretted it almost immediately. We were fortunate in that Bob Paisley took the club to another level. We let Dalglish walk away and, like Shankly, he regretted it almost immediately. Unfortunately, despite his best efforts, the door remained closed on Kenny until the club was desperate – and you could argue they were actually desperate for several periods of time during his absence. So, the question is, does a club of Liverpool’s stature allow a manager of Klopp’s stature to take a break, to recharge the batteries and come back refreshed, or if he goes does he go for good? Forget what he may or may not decide, is this something that you believe that LFC and FSG should ever countenance because who knows how history might have been rewritten if Shanks and Kenny had returned after a few months away.

    • eamonn 4 years ago

      All things being equal, if Klopp wants a sabbatical then saying “yes” would be a no-brainer.

      A propos Klopp not extending his contract, I wonder if it is another example of his leadership style. Perhaps he is saying to the players, at every level,  that it is the same rule for everyone, “I don’t get to be complacent so neither do you“.

  44. Jeff 4 years ago

    Jurgen Klopp is in a different reality in Liverpool than he was at either Mainz or Dortmund. At Mainz he did not have the resources to compete at the top of German football let alone make an impact in Europe. I am confident that one reason he came to Liverpool was FSG guaranteed him the resources he needed to compete at the top level of English football and European football. Second, at Dortmund he was not the man in charge and that of course was Zorc. In Liverpool Jurgen Klopp has the final word of all football matters. Given the reality of life for Jurgen Klopp at Liverpool, it is a mistake to look at his time at previous clubs and draw any conclusions on anything.

  45. Andrew 4 years ago

    please forgive me

    a) if this has been asked already since the end of last season; and

    b) for my lack of already knowing the answer…….

    As holders, (oh boy, does that still sound so good!!) are we automatically placed in Pot1 for this year’s Champs League draw or is that the sole preserve of domestic champions??

    Remember, up until we won in Instanbul, the holders didn’t even gain automatic right of entry into the draw and to defend their trophy (as up until then, the holders had always already qualified by virtue of their league position).

    Having watched the relatively hard work we made of getting out of last season’s group stage, I’d definitely prefer an “easier” group this time but there’ll be no complaints if we can reproduce last season’s form once we got into the knockout games.

    • Krishaldo 4 years ago

      European champions Liverpool secured a group place for next season through their domestic league. Therefore, the automatic berth allocated to the UEFA Champions League winners passes to the champions of the national association ranked 11th, namely Austria.

      Pot 1: Liverpool (holders), Chelsea (UEFA Europa League winners), Barcelona, Manchester City, Juventus, Bayern, Paris, Zenit

      https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2590454.html

      • Krishaldo 4 years ago

        POT 2 (provisional): Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, FC Porto*, Tottenham Hotspur, Borussia Dortmund, Napoli, Shakhtar Donetsk, Ajax*

        POT 3 (provisional):  Benfica, Dynamo Kiev*, Lyon, Bayer Leverkusen, FC Salzburg, Valencia, Inter Milan, Celtic*

        POT 4 (provisional):  FC Copenhagen*, Dinamo Zagreb*, Lokomotiv Moscow, Genk, Galatasaray, RB Leipzig, Atalanta, Lille

        *denotes must go through qualifying

        https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/champions-league-pots-201920-after-16242389

      • i.wilson 4 years ago

        It will be interesting – Now we are in the 1st pot will we as have City for the last 2 years benefit from an easy draw allowing easy games enabling rotation and youth. Porto, Copenhagen and Celtic would suit – Nothing challenging or long distance.

        Or will we again be cursed with one of the toughest draws of the 4 english clubs?

        The last 2 years have blessed City with lovely draws in all 3 cup competitions while we have suffered. Would that without the bribery I’m convinced their good fortune must surely indicate we can have one season with similarly easy draws – to enable our rotation and youth policy to be fully utilised.

        I wouldn’t bet on it ;(

      • vinnylfc 4 years ago

        Not sure why they need to give Europa League winners pot 1 status – seems a little over-generous!

        Also, how out-of-place do Zenit look in that list? I can’t say I agree with the current allocation of ‘pot’ status as it always leaves at least one overly strong group (e.g. Liverpool, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, Galatasaray) and one overly weak group (e.g. Zenit, Porto, Salzburg, Atalanta).

      • Author
        Paul Tomkins 4 years ago

        Not sure why they need to give Europa League winners pot 1 status – seems a little over-generous!

        Also, how out-of-place do Zenit look in that list?

        I was about to post both things. How can Zenit, who never do anything significant in Europe, be in Pot 1 but Real Madrid, who have won 3 of the last 4 Champions Leagues, be in pot 2?

        The Europa winners be in pot 1 is equally bizarre.

  46. Chris Rowland 4 years ago

    Amongst the team we could draw from Pots 2-4 are Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Inter Milan, Napoli, Dortmund, Leipzig, Leverkusen, Lyon, Benfica, and returns to former final cities in Galatasaray and Shakhtar Donetsk (playing in Kiev). Spurs will also be in there but we can’t get them in a group.

    • i.wilson 4 years ago

      Yup with our recent luck I see the following:-

      Athletico – I’d rather avoid – Though I would be quite happy to draw Real – Revenge.

      Dortmund – They have made some impressive signings – I see them make a real challenge.

      Leipzig – A beatable team but likely the most challenging for forth.

      Meanwhile City will negotiate :-

      Porto,

      Copenhagen

      Atalanta

      • vinnylfc 4 years ago

        Well I can allay your fears slightly I Wilson, as we couldn’t draw both Dortmund & Leipzig!

      • vinnylfc 4 years ago

        Also, Atleti & Dortmund are both pot 2.

      • i.wilson 4 years ago

        Its going to be easier then 😉

  47. Andrew 4 years ago

    thanks for all your responses and it’s good that we’re in Pot1…..but that didn’t happen after Istanbul..have the rules etc changed in the interim?? Also agree with those that point out that it seems over-generous to place the Europa winners into Pot1….no real quibble with them qualifying for the Champs League – but Pot1???

    • i.wilson 4 years ago

      I believe that our winning the CL in Istanbul while not qualifying for the CL triggered a lot of changes.

      They gave us an exemption that year.

      But since then they have meant winning the CL guarantees CL.

      The Europa League qualifies for the CL as without that what value does the little valued Europa have – It is needed to earn Uefa more revenues 😉

  48. Andrew 4 years ago

    IWilson …..I get that winning either gets you into the main draw….it’s the Pot1 thing that’s bemusing me!!!

    • i.wilson 4 years ago

      I guess that the pot 1 thing is another attempt to provide more percieved value to winning it.

      After all it increases the chances of getting out of the group stage.

      Lets face it Chelsea seem better suited to Zenit in the group.

      For me it should be the top 2  England/Spain(4) – Top 1/2 Germany/italy(3) + 1 from best of Portugese/Dutch/French.

      This would strengthen the Pot 1’s and weaken the pot 2’s – Reducing the impact of good fortune on the difficulty of a CL run.

  49. Krishaldo 4 years ago

    The God of Football has told us that we HAVE to sell one of Salah or Mane for £150m

    Which one are you selling?

    • Markus 4 years ago

      Become atheist

    • Patrick 4 years ago

      Markus has a funny reply.  Since I’m not willing to lose my “religion” just yet and HAD to do it, I think I’m selling Salah.  Don’t get me wrong, I love Salah, but Mane was probably my first Liverpool “love” and it’s hard to go against him.

  50. peterneall 4 years ago

    The so called ‘god of football’ is probably another fancy stunt linked to Citeh so I simply invoke a bigger one to overrule it – come in Jurgen

     

     

  51. eddierobUSA 4 years ago

    So this came up on another thread; but here is a BBC article based around proposals made by the professional players union (detailing the increasing number of games the top players are now involved in):

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49192239

    My question is ‘how many games (or full game equivalent minutes given they may be substituted)  is it reasonable to expect our key players to play for us  in a season’?

    Last year Salah and Mane both played more than 90% of EPL minutes (so essentially 34 full games) – a level that I personally view as too high. But what would be a reasonable expectation across all competitions?

    • i.wilson 4 years ago

      Its interesting as these discussions coincide with the implementation of VAR.

      Will VAR increase the physical toll taken on players – More stationary time awaiting a decision – More Stop cool down start all over again – Surely given the high speed of the modern game this will increase further the injury problems for the modern player.

  52. Author

    If we say that Liverpool’s best XI – or most likely XI these days – is Alisson, TAA, VvD, Matip, Robbo, Gini, Fabinho, Hendo, Mané, Salah and Firmino (and you may disagree on the midfield 3, which may change), who are the 7 best subs? (assuming that there is no specific need in the game to be extra attacking or extra defensive, and that the midfielders who you wouldn’t choose for the XI are still at least on the bench).

    Mignolet, plus six from: Milner, Keita, Shaqiri, Origi, Brewster, Lallana, Gomez, Lovren, Ox, Wilson … before getting on to Hoever, van den Berg and Elliott. (With Clyne likely out for the season or loaned/sold if he hadn’t.)

    Who the hell doesn’t even make the 18? I make that eight extremely strong candidates for the six outfield positions, plus Brewster and Wilson as pretty strong candidates. Put like this, it seems that we have two players for every position – a first XI and a reserve XI, with perhaps the left-back cover coming from the midfield overspill. Then, 4 or 5 very prodigious teenagers.

    • dawerßhönü 3 years ago

      I think that the way Klopp and team have gone about the transfer window would perhaps indicate that we are investing in our youth.

      That only makes sense if we also give them enough opportunities for minutes, not just training, wouldn’t you agree?

      As I remember, Fergie used to steamroller teams in the bottom half of the league in the first 70 mins, go 3 or 4 up and then introduce the kids for a safe 20 minutes of first team action. And it worked. It helped that managers had a tendency to roll over when they came to town – I particularly remember an interview with Mick McCarthy when he was in charge of Wolves I think, who said “There’s no point in using up your energy against Man Utd, we need to save it for the teams around us where we have a genuine chance of picking up points”.

      And I remember thinking then, that this was how to build and manage a team for the long term.

      I would hope that there will be enough games where we can start bringing on Hoever, VDB and Elliott with 20 safe minutes left to develop their confidence, making them occasional starters next season and hopefully first teamers in a couple of years. It will help with rest for our essentials too.

      You’d have to think that Lovren and Lallana will start to be phased out, perhaps even Millie too (who will simply refuse and carry on training harder and making himself the first name down, either as a sub or first XI)

    • Krishaldo 3 years ago

      Migs

      Gomez to cover CB and RB

      Milner to cover both fullbacks and either side of the 6 (with Wij or Hendo able to move to the 6 if Fab goes off)

      Ox or Naby if we need some midfield dynamism

      Then three of Brewster, Origi, Shaq, Wilson and Elliott (in that pecking order?)

      I guess it’d also come down to the opposition too. If we think we will be 3-0 up after 60, then maybe make room for Elliott at the expense of Shaq or similar.

    • Jeff 3 years ago

      Fitness issues will determine who is selected to be a reserve. Legitimate fitness questions and match fitness questions can be asked about Keita, Shaqiri, Lallana, AOC, Gomez, and Brewster. I do want to note that if any of these lads do regain full fitness and full match fitness they might well be regulars in the starting 11.

  53. dr gonzo 3 years ago

    Dream last minute transfer deadline day purchase?

    I’m going to plump for Kai Havertz myself. That would be nice.

  54. REDM 3 years ago

    Here’s a question….. Of the the 6 remaining trophies on offer, how would you rank their importance i.e. if we could win X of them which ones would you plump for? This isn’t a question about prioritising resources, just one about which trophies you would most like to see us win (and in particular where you rank the Super Cup and World Club Championship, which we don’t normally compete for).

    Mine would be 1. League 2. European Cup 3. World Club Championship 4. FA Cup 5. Super Cup 6. League Cup

    • Chris Rowland 3 years ago

      1 and 2 – Premier League and Champions League. Can’t separate them. I just LOVE being champions of Europe!

      3 – World Club Championship – only because it’s something we’ve never won and you don’t get in it that often. Get it out of the way and it can resume its status as a pointless mid-season friendly tournament.

      4 – FA Cup

      5- Super Cup

      6 – League Cup

      7 – Community Shield, if we’d won it.

    • I’d take League Cup over Super Cup, but otherwise the same as you two.

    • JCP 3 years ago

      Because I spent so much time playing sport over the weekend (usually two full games of rugby and football i.e. 4 events) for school/old boys/colts and boys club/Sunday League, I hardly ever got to watch a weekend game (it was invariably a Saturday back in the day), but did see a lot of the midweek games and especially like the European games, a europhile even then!
      So for me it’s the European Cup/CL , numero uno!
      The league is a close second, but utterly indifferent to the rest….. Me bad!

       

    • NickM 3 years ago

      I would have to bump the Super Cup above the FA Cup. Winning that puts us level with Real Madrid and behind only AC Milan and Barca for Super Cup wins. The Super Cup may not be seen as very prestigious on these shores but I think it is viewed slightly differently abroad. Anything that adds a European trophy to the cabinet is a must.

    • vinnylfc 3 years ago

      I’d put the Super Cup top, but that may change later in the season 😉

  55. yathaid 3 years ago

    Guessing this is a question for our transfers and finances gurus on here. I was reading through this list from the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/22/premier-league-finances-club-guide-2017-18-accounts-manchester-united-city

    Liverpool: Wage bill £264m (2nd highest, 58% of turnover, up from £208m)

    Man City: Wage bill £260m (3rd highest, 52% of turnover, up from £264m*)

    How the heck is City’s wage bill less than ours ??!

    • red mick 3 years ago

      Is this just playing and coaching staff? If it’s overall wages for the club, I think City disguise a lot of their payments by outsourcing many functions to Abu Dhabi-based companies, which are essentially being bankrolled by the state, like City. If the figures relate to just playing and coaching staff I’m as puzzled as you.

    • Jennifer 3 years ago

      They outsource lots of their functions I think.  Also, if it includes all staff, remember that LFC are one of only four EPL clubs that pay the Real Living Wage.

  56. red mick 3 years ago

    Anything with Europe in it tops domestic stuff for me, simply in terms  of raising the international profile of the club, which is where the future lies for clubs at the level of LFC. It may not be the game I was raised on, but it’s  reality. Thats not to say I don’t want a league title but being champions of Europe can’t be beat.

  57. Jennifer 3 years ago

    Whatever Guardiola says, the Champions League is the pinnacle.

  58. andrewarrojo 3 years ago

    @yathaid 

    Not a a transfer or finance guru, but Man City moving a hefty portion of player wages off the books to be paid by a third party was one of the allegations (with demonstrable evidence) in the De Spiegel stories on Man City’s financial irregularities.

    As I recall, they moved the image rights portion of wages on to a 3rd party. Even better, this third party paid a fee of around $30-40 million for the pleasure of paying Man City players a big chunk of their wages – and that payment was then shown as income by City, just as a transfer fee would be!

    It surely raises the question of how much the City coaching and playing staff are complicit in the financial cheating? I sure know where every penny of my paycheck comes from, and goes to.

    Here’s the original story: https://www.spiegel.de/international/manchester-city-and-the-fight-against-financial-fairplay-a-1236347.html

    • yathaid 3 years ago

      Thanks Andrew, I had only heard about the Man City financial shenanigans in passing, never dug into the actual line items that were shifted around.

    • MikeH 3 years ago

      They are a bent club.

      They have systematically over inflated their revenues. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see how laughable and unrealistic their so called “sponsorship” deals are. Numerous related parties paying well over the odds.

      On the other side of the ledger they use their holding company structure to hide/move around wages and costs to wherever makes the most sense. For example no one  board director  gets paid. Clearly out of the love in their hearts for City they are happy to forego salaries…..of course they are.

      Unfortunately I think that by and large the authorities are complicit. They are almost certainly buying off the majority of dissenters in numerous ways. Ferguson set the template with his aggressive bullying and effectively zero punishment. City are doing the same, make themselves important, insinuate themselves into the system until it’s difficult to bring  them down without taking the whole structure with it.

      Most of the media are quiet because they choose to be quiet. Either explicitly or implicitly they have been encouraged to look the other way. There will always be some dissenters but the City propaganda machine is highly efficient.

      Unfortunately money buying influence is not new and whether it’s oil rich Arab states or oligarchs from various countries buying influence, this has been going on since time immemorial in all spheres of life. I do not hold out hope for the justice that we would like to see. The best hope is that Der Spiegel have significantly more and are waiting to see the authorities response before showing their hand. Bringing the whole edifice down and starting again would be the best outcome. In all scenarios though, I doubt we will see any retrospective punishments meted out.

  59. red mick 3 years ago

    Great post Andrew. Should be shown to every football fan in the country to raise awareness of the corruption at the Etihad. Sadly, 95 per cent have no idea and even less interest.

  60. andrewarrojo 3 years ago

    @red mick.

    Agree, the awareness should be more widespread. Considering the scale of the allegations, the lack of press coverage in the UK is astonishing.

    And also agree, most people don’t seem to care a jot!

    Perhaps if more focus was given the horrific human rights abuses, and the mission to sportswash those abuses into oblivion, a few more people would care.

    But all I I hear is, ‘Well, they tidied up the outskirts of Manchester a treat!’

     

     

     

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